Ep. 1 | A Leftist & a Libertarian Walk Into a Podcast
Welcome to Schindler's Gist. I'm MJ Schindler, a leftist organizer based in Cherokee County, Georgia. My co-host is Tyler Kluth, a libertarian in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. We met playing music in Atlanta. This is our first episode.
We recorded this on March 26th, 2026, the day before NGA CAN's No Kings protest in Canton, Georgia. Canton went well. Full debrief comes next episode.
In this episode we get into executive orders, how we both ended up where we are politically, and what it actually looks like when two non-culty people try to have an honest political conversation.
No party line. No kool-aid. New episodes weekly.
Website: https://schindlersgist.com
Follow NGA CAN's organizing work: https://ngacan.org
Transcript
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::MJS: Okay, and I'm also going to get it to do a transcript, if I can make it do that.
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::Tyler Kluth: It did say it was transcribing.
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::Tyler Kluth: on my end.
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::MJS: Good, I think maybe it does that all the time, and then I just have to make sure I save it at the end, otherwise it disappears forever.
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::Tyler Kluth: But yeah, I figure we could take the two apart if we need to, but we should probably practice in video, because it's.
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::MJS: Okay.
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::Tyler Kluth: It seems to be people like to have video, too.
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::MJS: That's how… that's the new hotness, great.
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::Tyler Kluth: Yeah.
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::MJS: Well, how do you want to start?
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::Tyler Kluth: I was thinking we should probably…
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::Tyler Kluth: Intro… like, you should probably intro with… The name.
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::MJS: Okay.
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::Tyler Kluth: The name… the name of the podcast, and then… Maybe, kinda…
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::Tyler Kluth: Like, the basic, you know, goal of the podcast?
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::Tyler Kluth: And then… and then we go into kind of introducing ourselves as…
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::Tyler Kluth: You as the main host, and…
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::Tyler Kluth: And then as me, as a recurring guest.
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::MJS: You can be a co-host, we can give you.
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::Tyler Kluth: Co-host? Yeah.
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::MJS: Robin? Alright, so this is Schindler's Gist.
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::MJS: This is a attempt to document the horrors of our modern political systems and, come up with solutions. Does that sound right to you?
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::Tyler Kluth: Sounds good to me!
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::MJS: And I think it's a place for us to explore what ideas we're thinking about. I do think it'll be good to relate it
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::MJS: Keep it related to politics and… World events, maybe, but,
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::MJS: We can… we can… we… we can expand and subtract… expand and contract as we… as we go along.
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::MJS: And we need to introduce ourselves, but I'd like for you to introduce yourself first.
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::Tyler Kluth: Oh, mutable first, all right.
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::Tyler Kluth: Oh, my name is Tyler. I am going to be the co-host.
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::Tyler Kluth: On this new project here.
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::Tyler Kluth: So I'm originally from Wisconsin.
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::Tyler Kluth: Moved around all over the place.
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::Tyler Kluth: From, Pennsylvania down to Georgia, where I met our host MJ, here.
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::Tyler Kluth: And, we played music together, that's how we got to know each other.
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::Tyler Kluth: So, before that, as I was, to go back to the point of this podcast, and what we're doing here.
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::Tyler Kluth: I was raised in a family of a kind of vote blue no matter who.
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::Tyler Kluth: And I've lived that way for most of my adult life.
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::Tyler Kluth: Up until probably the first Trump election, the Trump versus Hillary.
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::Tyler Kluth: Where I really started to question the idea of just blindly supporting a party.
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::MJS: Was it because you didn't like Hillary particularly, or… or… what was it?
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::Tyler Kluth: I was… so I was always told you had to vote blue, because even if you don't like them, it's the better of the two evils argument.
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::Tyler Kluth: And I was just disgusted by the two options that we were given. That was the best our country could offer us.
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::MJS: Were you at all ever a Bernie guy?
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::Tyler Kluth: I, in the beginning, was, and I think I could have been somewhat won over by that position.
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::Tyler Kluth: Then. I, I did, I thought Bernie and the Democrat Party
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::Tyler Kluth: Was a better candidate, for sure.
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::Tyler Kluth: than Hillary, and I think one of the disgusting points, which I think is, I don't even think it's controversial to say that, at the minimum, the Democratic Party put its finger on the scale.
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::MJS: Yeah, good.
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::Tyler Kluth: the primary, and it was pretty obvious.
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::Tyler Kluth: So, that's kind of where I started to see, like, yeah, I don't think I've been paying enough attention to this, and I'm not in support of how this is operating.
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::Tyler Kluth: And then, so I started to get disillusioned, and then COVID happened.
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::MJS: Yeah.
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::Tyler Kluth: And COVID is what set me down the rabbit hole of learning more, about… the political system.
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::Tyler Kluth: and wanting to read more and learn more about our rights as citizens, about the Constitution, and really starting to go in-depth on these thoughts, and to think about
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::Tyler Kluth: How we could actually fix this, because it didn't seem like it was moving forward in any good direction for the citizens of this country.
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::MJS: Can you explain more? Like, what was it that felt off to you?
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::Tyler Kluth: The overwhelming amount of government control.
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::Tyler Kluth: The right of the government to just basically shut everything down.
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::Tyler Kluth: And… Just, and, you know, just limit where people could go, what they could do.
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::Tyler Kluth: It's see, you know, without a lot of information, and a lot of contradicting information.
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::Tyler Kluth: And, you know, and, like, that, like, and just to also destroy the economy.
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::Tyler Kluth: And, you know, watching that be the largest wealth transfer from the poor to the rich.
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::Tyler Kluth: And to print money without… without any regard.
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::Tyler Kluth: And to just devalue the dollar and make the working people of this country continue to suffer.
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::Tyler Kluth: Right, but, you know, we… they didn't… they didn't really help anybody.
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::Tyler Kluth: is… is what I saw, at least.
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::Tyler Kluth: And that… so that kind of pushed me…
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::Tyler Kluth: From being more of, like, into the more social ideas into more of the libertarian camp.
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::Tyler Kluth: So, then I started reading, I've got a, you know, good reading list of… Of some of the…
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::Tyler Kluth: influential libertarian writers, and I've been slowly chugging my way through the… that… those theories of economics and government systems, and actually reading about the differences between what capitalism is, and what socialism is, and
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::Tyler Kluth: You know, I think ideas that everybody talks about, but once you start reading and diving more, you find how much more complex all of these ideas are.
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::Tyler Kluth: And… and really trying to educate myself and learn.
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::Tyler Kluth: and figure out what I think is the best message to help everybody move forward in a positive way that empowers everybody fairly.
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::Tyler Kluth: And… and now, now, now I'm here, and you know, we're… we're starting this to try to reach people.
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::Tyler Kluth: You know, I think this'll be fun, because I think you and me both… Know there's problems.
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::Tyler Kluth: We need solutions, and I think we have different ideas of how to get there, but the one thing we agree on the most is we need to get there.
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::MJS: Yeah, and I think that personality-wise, both of us, tend to be… What's it called?
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::MJS: we aren't very culty. We aren't… that's not really… like, we… we tend to be evidence-based, like, we can be persuaded to change our minds, but we need… we need evidence and… and,
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::MJS: So, I think… I think what will be fun is, like, exploring stuff and… and learning together and talking about things, because a lot of times, I find that a lot of times when you talk to someone else about your ideas, you realize the gaps you have.
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::MJS: And you talked about that, like, your wife is good at challenging you on some things, and that's how.
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::Tyler Kluth: Oh, yeah.
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::MJS: That helps you understand what you think better, more and better.
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::Tyler Kluth: Definitely, yeah, she definitely, she definitely gives me the pushback I need, and finds, yeah, where… and helps show me where I need to understand where I'm coming from more.
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::Tyler Kluth: Which, you know, because I want to have conversations with people, I don't want to argue. Yeah. Arguing gets us nowhere, so I, you know, my biggest focus in my… in educating myself in these topics has been…
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::Tyler Kluth: to not under… not only understand where I'm coming from at a surface level, but after… if I… after I decide whether I agree or not with a certain point, to then be able to…
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::Tyler Kluth: Explain it more than, you know, the surface layer, go… go deeper.
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::MJS: Come on.
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::Tyler Kluth: Really, to really show understanding of the topic.
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::Tyler Kluth: And, you know, to have ideas for how to move forward.
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::MJS: Yeah.
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::MJS: Okay, so tell… tell me about, your life. Like, what do you, what do you do real quick? Like, how do you spend your time?
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::Tyler Kluth: Well, I used to build custom cars and hot rods for a, for a, career. Worked in some, like, bigger body shops. I learned early on in life I do not like corporations. I prefer small businesses, family businesses.
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::Tyler Kluth: They're the backbone of this country.
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::Tyler Kluth: And, you know, they treat you like humans. Corporations don't treat you like humans. They don't care if you're sick, ill, they don't care if your family has issues.
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::Tyler Kluth: They don't care if you need to do anything, if you don't abide by their rules, you're punished.
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::MJS: the same rights as humans.
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::Tyler Kluth: That's all.
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::MJS: Also, what pisses me off about… giant corporation.
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::Tyler Kluth: Yes, they are not a human, they should not have human rights. No.
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::Tyler Kluth: So yeah, I did that for a while, well, almost all my career, about 20 years, and then, which is crazy to say.
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::MJS: It is wild. We're getting old, man.
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::Tyler Kluth: Yeah.
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::Tyler Kluth: And then I had a son, and I was a stay-at-home dad for a couple years.
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::Tyler Kluth: Join the workforce again, and I'm back to… kind of a stay-at-home dad freelance.
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::Tyler Kluth: type operation.
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::Tyler Kluth: You know, trying to start my own business, making, you know, making goods for people, and then being… also having the flexibility to take care of my kid when he needs
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::Tyler Kluth: When you need somebody home.
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::Tyler Kluth: And, yeah, it's kind of been my, my project… my, path so far in that… in that way.
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::MJS: And you've been doing leatherworking lately, right?
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::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, so I've been leatherworking, actually, started doing that when,
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::Tyler Kluth: when, my… it would have been right before my wife was pregnant, it was for an anniversary present, whichever anniversary is leather, that was the gift for the year.
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::MJS: Oh, really?
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::Tyler Kluth: Yep, that was the first thing I made. I went to Hobby Lobby, and I bought a bunch of just little leather tools, and I made.
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::MJS: No!
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::Tyler Kluth: A little, jar wrapped in leather for her.
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::MJS: Aw, that's cute, I didn't know that.
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::Tyler Kluth: And, I fell in love.
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::MJS: What number is leather? What number?
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::Tyler Kluth: And it'd be, like, 2?
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::MJS: Oh, really? Okay.
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::Tyler Kluth: It was early on, yeah.
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::MJS: Got it. Oh, that's cute. That's real sweet.
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::Tyler Kluth: And that's become a big, a big fascination of mine, and really fun to learn. I love making things, so…
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::Tyler Kluth: So, it's a good path… a new path of making forward for me.
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::Tyler Kluth: And then, obviously, as you know, I play music on the side.
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::MJS: Yeah, and how's that going?
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::Tyler Kluth: It's going… it's going good, I'm busy, about to launch a second project here soon, which we haven't even talked about.
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::Tyler Kluth: But, with people in my band now, but me and one of my band members is starting a separate… a separate band of a little bit of a different genre to, add to getting out, be able to play more music.
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::MJS: What genre?
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::Tyler Kluth: It'll be more… the band I'm in is more, like, blues that we mix some, like, folk and, like, Colorado-style grass into.
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::Tyler Kluth: And this will be… and I played upright bass in that.
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::Tyler Kluth: And this is more of, like, Americana folk, with a little bit of grass mixed in, where I'll be actually playing guitar and singing, as opposed to behind the bass.
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::MJS: Cool. I'm jealous. I've been feeling creatively stuck lately, like, I tried to… I decided I was going to start doing a show once a month to try to make myself play, because I like, you know, in theory, I like performing and playing.
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::MJS: And I think it's good for me.
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::MJS: And… Then I,
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::MJS: just got… I was like, I just… I don't… okay, once a month is too much, I don't want to deal with that. And then I also was just like, I don't even know…
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::MJS: What to do with…
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::MJS: I don't… it's like my… I think I'm just too stressed, and I think music can be a great stress reliever, and art, you know, and stuff, but…
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::Tyler Kluth: I would…
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::MJS: Reading. Do you like, what's his name?
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::MJS: the… He's the guy who, common sense with, he does a ton of history podcasts.
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::MJS: Dang it, I'm forgetting his name.
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::MJS: Almond scents, almonds.
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::Tyler Kluth: That's alright.
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::MJS: Marlin.
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::Tyler Kluth: Oh, Dan Carlin? Yeah, yeah, I love Dan Carlin.
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::MJS: So, he had a post… on, he had a post on…
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::MJS: I'm forgetting all the words. It's so great that we could edit this.
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::MJS: I think… Substack. So, Dan Carlin has a substack.
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::MJS: And… and I kind of want to read it to you, because…
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::MJS: I felt like it was,
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::MJS: really Okay, so… Let's see… Alright.
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::MJS: Never mind, I'll have to go to Reddit, where I found this.
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::Tyler Kluth: So, Dan Carlin has been a wealth of knowledge for me.
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::MJS: Yeah.
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::Tyler Kluth: like… Yeah, just, just, I mean, the ridiculously, like, long amounts of time he goes into these subjects.
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::Tyler Kluth: It is… is amazing.
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::MJS: Yeah.
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::MJS: Okay. Alright, found it. So he said.
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::MJS: I'm not sure what to write here, but I thought some sort of an update was warranted. It's March 25th, and I haven't gotten a piece of audio content out this year. Now, some mitigating factors are involved, life intervenes, some hand surgery for arthritis, plus some normal family stuff, but I don't think that's the main issue.
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::MJS: After much introspection, I think it is just hard to talk with passion and enthusiasm and improvising with no scripts about events thousands of years ago on the History Show, when such momentous ones are occurring to all of us right now. And I've tried doing a Common Sense with Dan Carlin show several times to deal with all of that.
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::MJS: Instead, only to be thwarted by the scope of the problems and the pace of events. What if I'd done an in-depth, common-sense show on the Greenland fiasco, for example? Or eating the cats and dogs affair?
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::MJS: I don't think I gave this substack enough
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::MJS: Substack page and a forethought in terms… I thought this was interesting, because it shows the way he thinks, like, he's so…
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::MJS: organized in the way he thinks. I don't think I gave this Substack page enough forethought in terms of the way I put it together, either.
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::MJS: Theoretically, I could have been using this to fill audio release scat with some written thoughts, but, for example, when I first joined Twitter, I made sure to have two separate accounts. One for the history show, and one for common sense, dealing with current events, politics, opinion, etc.
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::MJS: That way, people who had no interest in the latter stuff didn't get bombarded with it. I didn't do that on Substack, and so I've limited its value as a tool to use when I can't seem to get the audio done. I've not created a space for the current events commentary to live, not yet, anyway.
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::MJS: But we are living through absolutely momentous times, and dangerous ones. Don't allow yourself to be gaslit about that.
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::MJS: Any fan of history can see it. And as someone who fretted for years and bored the people around me to tears about the trends we are now seeing play out, it's personally a bit of a crisis for me. I spent my life since I was a teen paying attention to ideas and approaches and arguments to keep from reaching the point we've reached.
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::MJS: I wrapped my whole career around it. I'm less well-equipped, and of course totally inexperienced, with dealing with things now that we have arrived here.
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::MJS: I feel I have less useful commentary to offer. I don't know how to get us out of the mess we're in. At that point, what's there to say that's helpful? I'm sure there's something, but I haven't figured out yet what it is.
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::MJS: But it's haunting me, and it's thwarting me. It is sapping my energy, and I feel angry, and I feel stuck. Normally, when I have things to say, I will talk your ear off. I'm silent these days. I've turned inward and want to read and study rather than communicate, even around the house. My wife is driving me nuts, saying, are you okay all the time? But I'm worried…
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::MJS: Yeah. I'm worried about the future. I think all intelligent Americans are. And like a computer that gets co-opted trying to figure out the value of pi to the last digit, my mind goes over our circumstances endlessly and without answers or resolution.
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::MJS: I've tried to keep a foot in the game. We have two accounts on the design-to-divide international propaganda hellscape that is Twitter. I'm too old for name changes. The history one at Hardcore History, is really more for updates and release announcements, which you'll get from me on Substack, too.
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::MJS: But the DC Common Sense one is the one where I try to give my two cents. It's surely much easier to type a few sentences on there than to find the vim and verve needed to put together a good improvised show. And I seem to be just as able to upset people and bots, even with the app's character limit.
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::MJS: If Ben asks what I've been doing on Twitter, I say, just culling the audience again.
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::MJS: I still go…
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::MJS: I still go in the studio every morning. It just is slow going and frustrating, and the days when the energy and muse inspiration come together as they need to for successful end results are fewer per week than they used to be.
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::MJS: And maybe this is just age, maybe it's that the traditional vast amounts of coffee seem almost powerless over me now, or maybe it's the weight of the times in which we live. It would be nice to not be thinking about politics with the latest dangerous, divisive nightmare every day from the moment we wake up.
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::MJS: But that's not the reality in which we currently live.
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::MJS: Stay safe, everyone. I hope you're all okay. I will release anything I get done that I like whenever I get it done. Thanks for being so patient with me. May you live in interesting times, right?
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::Tyler Kluth: Alright.
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::MJS: Yeah.
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::MJS: Yeah, and then what really stood out to me was a lot of people were saying that
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::MJS: Let's see, it… that…
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::MJS: He's hit a creative wall, in a way, because what he does is a form of creativity.
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::MJS: And a lot of other people were saying that they felt the same way, and I think some people are finding escape in some kind of art or creativity, and some people…
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::MJS: feel more paralyzed based on just reading this and how I feel, but I've been feeling more paralyzed. Like, I want to be escapist, I want to be able to ignore
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::MJS: stuff that's going on, but I'm too anxious and on edge to be able to let go, and…
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::MJS: be in the moment as much as I think I should be able to, you know?
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::Tyler Kluth: No, I definitely feel that.
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::Tyler Kluth: But kind of where he said where he doesn't know what to do in this…
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::Tyler Kluth: Like, time right now in this situation.
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::Tyler Kluth: I think that's where… like, what we're doing, I think, is, like, this right here is, like.
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::Tyler Kluth: to do, is to… to…
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::Tyler Kluth: to try to get out and, you know, inform, like, or, you know, not even necessarily inform, I'm not saying that I'm… I mean, I'm just… I'm trying to self-educate myself, but at least, like, spread ideas that… that either of us agree with, and I think it also…
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::Tyler Kluth: What needs to be done is to show people that you don't have to be in the same… you don't have to be on the same team, because this is basically team sports at this point.
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::Tyler Kluth: You don't have to be on the same team to get along.
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::MJS: Yeah.
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::Tyler Kluth: We can disagree, we can, you know, we can work through it, but if everybody… if you're willing to listen to each other.
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::Tyler Kluth: And get over that barrier.
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::MJS: Yeah.
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::Tyler Kluth: I think, I think that's… that's the biggest.
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::Tyler Kluth: That's the biggest hurdle.
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::Tyler Kluth: And everybody just being able to talk about ideas without getting upset or shutting down.
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::MJS: Yeah.
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::MJS: Yeah.
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::Tyler Kluth: So, we did not get your intro.
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::MJS: Okay, I can do mine now.
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::Tyler Kluth: we need… we need that, and I'm also curious, because when we played music, I mean, I don't think both of us really touched these topics too much, because, you know, when you get to know somebody, you don't get right up on your soapbox, and… Well…
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::MJS: Also, Biden was the president… well, I remember I was talking about it a little bit, but Biden was president then.
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::MJS: when you and I started playing together, And…
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::MJS: It was much more boring while he was president.
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::MJS: a lot of this stuff wasn't happening right then. Like, we were post the worst of COVID, And,
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::MJS: And there… it didn't just seem like there was a fire every single day.
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::MJS: Like, you know?
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::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, I mean, I could… I could say yes and no. It felt definitely calmer.
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::Tyler Kluth: But during Biden's administration, we also had the Ukraine-Russia.
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::MJS: Absolutely.
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::Tyler Kluth: or pop off.
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::MJS: I'm not sure if that happened when we were… I can't remember when that happened in relation to us playing. I can't remember.
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::Tyler Kluth: It might have been actually right after we were playing, I guess.
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::MJS: Yeah.
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::MJS: Yeah, but anyway…
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::Tyler Kluth: I remember talking about it when I worked at the cantina with the other bartenders.
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::Tyler Kluth: So yeah, okay, so yeah, I guess, yeah, we had a… there was a little bit of a lull of just a horrible economy. Yeah.
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::MJS: Yeah, like, the economy still sucked, things were still hard, people were, like, coming out of the effects of COVID.
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::Tyler Kluth: Yep, yep.
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::Tyler Kluth: So, yeah, all the really bad Biden administration stuff started after we stopped playing music. Because, yeah, we had the Russia-Ukraine proxy war pop off, and then we had, all the fun in Gaza.
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::MJS: Maybe that was when his dementia was thoroughly kicking in.
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::Tyler Kluth: I think it might have been kicking in a little earlier.
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::MJS: Yeah, hard to tell, hard to tell.
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::MJS: Yeah, the election between Trump and Biden
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::MJS: They also had some reporting out where he was accused of, sexually assaulting a woman?
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::MJS: And, there were… I was shocked at how many people
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::MJS: Did not pay any attention to that.
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::MJS: And I think it was just because we were so desperate to have an option that wasn't Trump?
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::MJS: But I just remember being really disgusted and being like, great, I get to pick the worst rapist or the slightly less bad rapist.
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::MJS: Is how I felt. And I don't know, you know, I don't know if he did it. In part, there was some valid
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::MJS: Some valid,
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::MJS: criticism about the woman who came forward about it, because she had a history of being… of somewhat erratic behavior, but you could say that about me, compared to a lot of people who just keep their head down and don't make any waves, and then you could say, well, see, this lunatic, she ran for mayor, she did all these other things, and now she's accusing some guy of…
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::MJS: of rape? Yeah, she's a lunatic. You know, so it's just very easy to dismiss people.
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::MJS: Yeah.
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::Tyler Kluth: Well, it's hard to know the facts, too.
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::MJS: Yes.
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::Tyler Kluth: boil up after 20 years, like, well.
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::MJS: Right.
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::Tyler Kluth: It's just, just, someone's word against someone's word.
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::MJS: Right, it's just he said, she said, yeah.
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::Tyler Kluth: And it's just… it's just hard for any side, just, you know, to be an honest person trying to figure out what's the truth. It's like, well…
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::Tyler Kluth: I really don't know who to believe, because it's been so long, and there was nothing filed, and like… it's just, it's just at a logical point, like, it's not saying anybody's lying, it's just being like, yeah, but it'.
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::MJS: Right.
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::Tyler Kluth: There's just no substance to… you can't prove it.
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::MJS: Yeah, and then what are you supposed to do with that information anyway, after he's the,
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::MJS: is that really going to have any bearing on your decision at that late in the game when there wasn't another option? It was just down to Trump and Biden, so…
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::Tyler Kluth: Yeah.
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::MJS: Was it really gonna make some people just stay home? Probably a couple of people. But,
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::MJS: I mean, if they were concerned about
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::MJS: rapes and assaults, even at that point, Trump still had a much longer list, so it was…
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::MJS: It seemed like somebody was throwing stuff the wall to see what would stick, and it didn't really stick.
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::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, of course.
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::MJS: Fun times, fun times. Somebody's… somebody's potential rape and murder is just, like, a little… Pawn.
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::Tyler Kluth: A political football.
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::MJS: Yeah, yeah, just, yeah, political football, just… So,
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::MJS: I am originally from South Alabama, and I was… I was at a postcard party earlier this week, and one of the girls… it was all ladies at this thing. The postcard parties are when we just make postcards for people, for voting purposes.
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::MJS: And… and this was… this is with an organization that, sometimes does postcards. It's called Postcards to Voters.
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::MJS: And, they tell you what to say on the postcard, and they sometimes send you the actual postcards, sometimes you, you know, if they have a design they want you to use, sometimes it's random stuff, and you write to people. So, we were writing postcards this past Tuesday for Sean Harris's campaign.
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::MJS: And he's the Democratic candidate that is running in Marjorie Taylor Greene's district.
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::Tyler Kluth: Okay.
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::MJS: I didn't realize when I moved up to Woodstock how close I was to Marjorie Taylor Greene's district.
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::Tyler Kluth: Oh, really?
272
::MJS: Yeah, she's, like, a county away or something.
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::Tyler Kluth: Oh, okay.
274
::MJS: Yeah, yeah, and so that's been… that's been interesting. But yeah, he's a… he's a ex-general
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::MJS: Retired general.
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::MJS: and is a very moderate Democrat, like,
277
::MJS: not Democrat in name only, exactly, but he is just extremely, extremely moderate.
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::Tyler Kluth: Gotcha.
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::MJS: Yeah, Democrat.
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::Tyler Kluth: I mean, I don't… would you almost consider that, like, the Southern Democrat? Like, what you used to…
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::MJS: Maybe, yeah, maybe, maybe, actually, yeah, yeah, that might be, that might be a way to put it, yeah. So, I only say that because I think he, he, he would…
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::MJS: if people could put aside the fact… well, he's Black, running in a pretty racist area, but if people could put aside the fact that he has
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::MJS: a skin color that, if you're racist, you don't like, and the fact that he is a Democrat.
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::MJS: They… probably a majority of the people would actually agree with his,
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::MJS: with, with his, campaign.
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::Tyler Kluth: Okay, okay.
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::MJS: He's… but… but because now MAGA just… if you are a Democrat, you're a libtard. That's it, you know?
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::Tyler Kluth: Well, luckily, luckily the mega numbers are, shrinking by the day.
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::Tyler Kluth: Boom.
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::Tyler Kluth: So… so there's a lot of hope for that.
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::MJS: I'm gonna keep clinging to that. The rabid hardcore MAGAs are the ones that come out of the woodwork.
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::MJS: to make comments on our posts for the organization I run. So I hear from them a lot, and I'm just hoping they're dropping like flies, but…
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::Tyler Kluth: It is, it is. A lot of the people that were Trump-curious, that were considered mega in the movement because of all the campaign trail lies.
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::MJS: That's.
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::Tyler Kluth: Besides 2020, and we can see they were all live.
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::Tyler Kluth: But all of those people are… are off that bandwagon.
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::MJS: So do you think… do you think the people who are still in it, are they… are they…
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::MJS: and I guess, you know, the Venn diagram could be a circle, but…
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::MJS: are they truly intellectually, like, not capable of understanding what's going on, and or just in a cult? Like, because some of them are just… I'm just, like, the stuff that they are arguing with us would, you know… and again, I'm seeing…
300
::MJS: The idiots that take the time to go out of their way to go comment on a clearly…
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::MJS: leftist… Facebook entity to shoot their mouths off, so they've got to skew
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::MJS: dumb or something, because why would you spend your time that way, otherwise? Anyway…
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::Tyler Kluth: I think it's the far right minority wing of the party.
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::Tyler Kluth: I truly believe the majority of the population, if we sat down and talked about ideas, would come to an agreement on most things. Maybe it's a different way to do it, but I feel like most people want the same thing.
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::MJS: And a lot of it is they've been convinced that people are doing things that they're not doing.
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::Tyler Kluth: Well, it's that, and it's just that, like, hard line, because the parties have become a cult, and that's, like, the problem with primaries, is each side has to run its most extreme person in their primaries, and then what does that leave you in your generals, then? You have the most extreme, as opposed to the people that…
307
::Tyler Kluth: are actually going to be better, that are going to want…
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::Tyler Kluth: you know, want to actually do something for the people, but they don't get through to the… when you're… when you're just in one party, and you're… and you're going in the primary, like, that's when… I think that's when it falls apart into the… the… the more,
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::Tyler Kluth: You know… Far-right and far-left individuals running.
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::MJS: Yeah.
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::MJS: I wish we could,
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::MJS: I wish we had an actual, realistic path towards not having just a two-party system anymore.
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::Tyler Kluth: And, you know, the beauty of that is that's where the Republicans and the Democrats are a uniparty.
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::MJS: A ball.
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::Tyler Kluth: Don't want any parties, and.
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::MJS: No.
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::Tyler Kluth: Ross Perot… Challenge that? Hard.
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::Tyler Kluth: They… that's when all of the ballot access became extremely difficult for anybody that didn't have the backing of one of the two major parties.
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::MJS: Yeah.
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::Tyler Kluth: So, like, that's… that's the problem, is… is the system is purposely made to not allow other voices.
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::MJS: I think Georgia… I know there was a bill, Georgia… there were some people trying to pass a bill in Georgia that would have completely outlawed
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::MJS: ranked choice voting, even though we don't… we already don't have it. We already don't have…
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::Tyler Kluth: I'm sure you can't have it.
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::MJS: Yeah, yeah. You know, and there are other groups that are trying to get ranked choice voting to happen, and that's why they're doing it in advance, and it's just nuts. But the reason I brought up the postcard party, I just remembered I'm super ADD, so this might cause problems in this,
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::Tyler Kluth: I think it'll be great, we'll just…
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::MJS: I'll just bounce around.
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::Tyler Kluth: Other options, and then circle back.
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::MJS: Yeah, but we… one of the ladies commented, she was like, she said she saw the other day, somebody said,
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::MJS: If you're autistic, if you're an autistic boy, you get trains. If you're an autistic girl, you get politics.
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::MJS: And she was talking about herself, and I was like, I feel called out, because I… my dad, subscribed to Newsweek and Forbes magazine when I was a kid, and I would just read everything that I could get my hands on.
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::MJS: And so I was always reading Forbes and Newsweek and asking questions about things I didn't totally understand, and I was interested in stuff like that when I was little. And
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::MJS: Yeah, and now it's kind of circled back.
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::MJS: Yup.
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::Tyler Kluth: Yep.
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::MJS: I found, recently, Let me see, where did I put them?
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::MJS: I don't know where I put them, but I found these protest posters that I made in middle school, when my school wanted to institute a, uniform policy.
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::MJS: And I was like, uniforms are fascist, and it is…
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::MJS: You know, and I found them recently, and I was like, oh, I've always, I've always been like that. Okay. I forgot about that part of me.
339
::MJS: So,
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::MJS: The reason I got… I would rather be doing almost anything else than something related to politics. It, makes me angry, it raises my blood pressure. I think most of the stuff that happens in our society that's controlled by the people in power is…
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::MJS: Stupid.
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::MJS: And… self-serving.
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::MJS: And so it's very frustrating. But, I feel like… Well, back when…
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::MJS: Trump got re-elected, and, you know, the Project 2025 stuff was out. I was reading
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::MJS: About all the things that were probably coming around the corner for us.
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::MJS: And I was… telling… I was very stressed out.
347
::MJS: And I was telling my husband, I really want us to move… will you please consider moving to Canada? Like, we have people who are experts in… in tyranny and fascism who are leaving the country because they think we're going down a really dangerous path.
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::MJS: Can we at least consider, can you talk to your family about moving? And that just wasn't gonna happen.
349
::MJS: So…
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::MJS: like, I was… I remember telling him, I was like, I will not do well under fascism. I'm female, I'm outspoken,
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::MJS: I'm… I don't fit in on… on a good day in… in average society. I'm… I'm different.
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::MJS: I won't… I won't do well. If we actually get to, like, in my lifetime, a very suppressive, restrictive family. If I couldn't handle uniforms at a public school system as a kid, and I always hated them, they had them from the time I was 6th grade all the way up to,
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::MJS: senior year, if I can't handle that, I'm not going to be able to handle some oppressive society that wants to subjugate women, overtly, very overtly. You know, I already chafe at some things that happen in society. I'm not going to do well if it's worse.
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::MJS: And so, for my own sanity.
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::MJS: I felt like I needed to figure out how to fight back, and I also needed to find more people who were like-minded.
356
::MJS: Because when I moved up here to Woodstock to move in with Jared.
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::MJS: Where you and I met down in more Atlanta proper, it's much more liberal and much more diverse.
358
::MJS: And what I mean.
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::Tyler Kluth: Good luck.
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::MJS: Here,
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::MJS: like, the moment I realized how conservative it was was when I voted in the 2024 election, and there were so many races that were unopposed on the ballot.
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::MJS: oh, God, I've moved back to Alabama. I thought, you know, I moved to Atlanta area because I wanted a more progressive,
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::MJS: more… Diverse, more opportunity type of place, and…
364
::MJS: you know, stepped into a more conservative area when I moved up here. So that's why I started, the group called… that I called Woodstock CAN, which stands for Community Action Network, and honestly, I just picked the name because the URL was available, and it was a decent acronym.
365
::MJS: That sounded positive, and, you know, you can play games like Woodstock can, da-da-da-da-da.
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::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, yeah.
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::MJS: can, you know, whatever. We became, shortly after I started, we started just as a book club.
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::MJS: Because it was a way just to get like-minded people together and talk about ideas.
369
::MJS: And the way I started it, because you've asked about that, was I went on to meetup.com and was looking for groups like what I wanted, and I didn't find any, but I found one that was defunct. It no longer existed.
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::MJS: Like, it didn't have a manager, a leader, and so it was just sitting there waiting for somebody to take over leadership of it.
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::MJS: And that's how… that's how Meetup works now, if… if you let, like, your subscription as a manager expire.
372
::MJS: And I don't really like Meetup's platform, they charge a ton of money, so I just, messaged everyone that I could on there, and told them, hey, I want to start a group like this again, but on a different platform, would you be interested? And I had 3 people show up and meet me the first time. Neither of… or 2 people, so it was 3 total.
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::MJS: And we started a book club.
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::MJS: after that first meeting, only one person continued, but the book club grew, and then Trump just kept doing things that were kind of inflammatory, so every time we had a meeting, it continued to grow, people were interested.
375
::MJS: in the group. We became a chapter of Indivisible. Are you familiar with Indivisible?
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::Tyler Kluth: I am not.
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::MJS: Let me take a sip of my coffee.
378
::MJS: In another episode, I might get into beefs with Indivisible, because we are no longer an Indivisible chapter.
379
::MJS: And then we have…
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::Tyler Kluth: Gotcha.
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::MJS: very… I have very strongly held opinions about why we are no longer a, a indivisible chapter. But…
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::MJS: Indivisible is a… Progressive, nonpartisan, grassroots organizing entity.
383
::MJS: So, they have a couple… they have a couple of different non-profit arms that do slightly different things,
384
::MJS: And they support grassroots organizations, so they are a little bit… they are pretty hands-off most of the time.
385
::MJS: They were started by two… by two people
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::MJS: I forget… it's Ezra and Leah, they're a married couple, and they were…
387
::MJS: These people had some political experience, obviously, for them to be able to start the organization and get it off the ground so much.
388
::MJS: They were kind of modeling it after the Tea Party.
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::MJS: Because the Tea Party movement… and interestingly, Tea Party movement started here in Woodstock, Georgia. Their office is located here.
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::Tyler Kluth: Oh, I did not know that.
391
::MJS: Yeah.
392
::MJS: And I don't remember all the details, but Tea Party was very grassroots, and also a lot of what they did was try to
393
::MJS: this was my understanding, and I don't see a lot of evidence that Indivisible really does this, but in theory, what I thought it was supposed to do was focus on developing local leaders.
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::MJS: So that you had leadership coming from the ground up versus top-down. So, instead of having, like, one person work its way to the top of the Democratic Party and then be able to be like, hey guys, obviously I'm gonna be, like, your, you know, your candidate, right?
395
::MJS: It was supposed to be creating
396
::MJS: More of a… a bigger field to pull from, but also focusing a lot on local stuff, and local people, and… and just,
397
::MJS: And, and… in… you know, ways that the parties themselves don't do. And being nonpartisan,
398
::MJS: I liked that because they do tend to end up supporting
399
::MJS: the Democrats a lot, because in a two-party system, that's kind of your only two choices, right? Like, you can…
400
::MJS: you know, a lot of times. Those are the only two valid choices, and so they do end up going with the least bad of the two. But they still would openly criticize the Democratic Party sometimes, and they also
401
::MJS: have partnered with some of the other smaller parties,
402
::MJS: like, working families… I'm pretty sure they've partnered with them. I know we've had a bit… they've had joint events with Working Families Party, and I think even the DSA. I'm not sure about some of the others.
403
::MJS: So,
404
::MJS: We just… we've gone through some interesting phases as an organization. As a group that is no longer part of Indivisible, that means we have a little bit more freedom, to do some things that Indivisible would look down on,
405
::MJS: As just an example, technically,
406
::MJS: like, there's some things about if you are getting money through Indivisible because of the structure, the legal structure that Indivisible, the organization, is, there were limitations on how we could use that money. Yeah, and then it all made sense, but it just… we're… we are…
407
::MJS: a little bit more anarchic now. So we can do anything that is legal that our participants want to do.
408
::MJS: And we focus…
409
::MJS: a lot on local stuff, but obviously national things affect us too, so we end up doing a lot of things related to that. We still try to follow a lot of the campaigns that Indivisible is doing, if we think it makes sense for us. Like, we are hosting one of the No Kings protests this weekend.
410
::MJS: Do you know about those? You guys are probably gonna have one, right?
411
::Tyler Kluth: I don't know if there's one gonna be going on here this weekend, but they had… they did have their No Kings marches…
412
::Tyler Kluth: here throughout the summer, and I guess I don't think I said where I am other than Wisconsin, but I'm in up north, I'm in Eau Claire, which is kind of out by the Twin Cities, but on the Wisconsin side.
413
::MJS: What's your, what's your zip code?
414
::Tyler Kluth: 54703.
415
::Tyler Kluth: So, we're the only, like, city this side of Wisconsin within, like, you can go to La Crosse, which is, like, the other bigger one that's about an hour away.
416
::Tyler Kluth: And there's not much.
417
::MJS: You're having a No Kings this weekend, it's gonna be.
418
::Tyler Kluth: Oh, okay.
419
::MJS: park at.
420
::Tyler Kluth: And that's our…
421
::MJS: handheld.
422
::Tyler Kluth: And it's a college town, so actually, I think this is one of the only places in Wisconsin that went blue in the last election.
423
::MJS: Nice.
424
::Tyler Kluth: Because Wisconsin is, you know, famously a swing state and a battleground state.
425
::MJS: Do you like to go to those things, or is it… or does it not?
426
::Tyler Kluth: I can't handle… I can't handle the hypocrisy of the No Kings.
427
::Tyler Kluth: Because I feel like… Most people just mean…
428
::Tyler Kluth: Not your king, but my king.
429
::MJS: I, I think that can be true. I think, I think, I think the people that I talk to…
430
::MJS: would disagree with you and say, no, we don't want any king. But I think that, functionally, it can end up being that way because of the way our systems are. Like, what really, practically speaking, was the difference between
431
::MJS: Hillary Clinton, going back to that, like, the fact that
432
::MJS: we didn't have an opportunity… you know, for two… I think for about… for the last two,
433
::MJS: elections. We didn't really have a transparent ability to, pick who we wanted our Democratic candidate to be.
434
::Tyler Kluth: Yes.
435
::MJS: Not really. So how is that different?
436
::Tyler Kluth: No, no.
437
::MJS: Yay.
438
::Tyler Kluth: The Democrats did not practice democracy.
439
::MJS: I have…
440
::Tyler Kluth: Especially the last election. They didn't hold primaries.
441
::MJS: No.
442
::Tyler Kluth: And they anointed a person.
443
::MJS: Yes.
444
::Tyler Kluth: To run for the throne.
445
::MJS: Yeah, but… but I think… I would say that most of, like, everyone that I talk to openly has problems with that, so I understand feeling like it's,
446
::MJS: Feeling like it's… it's hypocritical, and there probably are some people, but…
447
::MJS: If it makes you feel any better, they're… they're… because they're non… because it's a non…
448
::MJS: partisan entity that creates them, that creates this, you do end up getting a pretty big, wide swath of people, from a lot of different perspectives.
449
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, I mean, but it is also pretty much, at least what I've seen, it's all Democrats.
450
::MJS: Well, maybe that's where you are.
451
::Tyler Kluth: Yes, and I'm just saying, in my… what I've seen, but I… and I do think it is mostly…
452
::Tyler Kluth: a Democrat issue right now. I don't think you have Republicans out there saying no kings.
453
::MJS: No, you don't, but… but that's gonna happen, that's what's gonna happen if you… if we only have a two-party system, you know? Yes.
454
::Tyler Kluth: I mean, I guess… I guess my thoughts are, is… is…
455
::Tyler Kluth: We've kind of been operating under a king imperial federal government for at least the last hundred years.
456
::Tyler Kluth: So… We need to mean no kings, like, all the way. Like, for anybody.
457
::Tyler Kluth: for the federal government in general. And I guess one, like, litmus test to it is, asking people, especially, like, Democrats, because it's easy for a person, a Republican, again, I am not a Democrat or a Republican.
458
::Tyler Kluth: Which I think allows me to… To judge everybody heavily.
459
::Tyler Kluth: But, I don't hear a lot of Democrats Really wrestling with how…
460
::Tyler Kluth: poor Obama was as a president when it came to these king-type things.
461
::Tyler Kluth: And… you know, he used…
462
::Tyler Kluth: He did a lot of very King-type moves. You know, we bombed Libya, destabilized the government, and created open-air slave markets without…
463
::Tyler Kluth: Without really going through Congress for it. Just didn't.
464
::Tyler Kluth: Like… You know, things like that. You know, he bailed out the banks.
465
::Tyler Kluth: Like, you know, and bailed out the automakers when they, you know, that's just taxpayer dollars to the richest things in this country.
466
::Tyler Kluth: So… I think we've been living under…
467
::Tyler Kluth: You know, a more or less an elected king for a long time.
468
::MJS: Well…
469
::MJS: I have two thoughts, two main thoughts that popped into my head. One, I actually… when… when Obama was
470
::MJS: Obama put a lot of kids in cages and separated families, too. His deportation…
471
::MJS: track record is terrible, the way he handled immigration.
472
::MJS: Was… was…
473
::Tyler Kluth: Oh, they called him the Deporter-in-Chief.
474
::MJS: Yes, yes. And…
475
::MJS: I did actually, like, I ended up joining the Libertarian Party in protest. I was so mad at Obama that at one point in time I joined the Libertarian Party. I don't think I'm still a member, I don't know. I don't care. I'm fine if I am.
476
::MJS: But, there were people who were upset with it at that time.
477
::MJS: I… I think you're right that none of the big organizations ever want to admit they… like, top-down, they never want to admit there was something wrong with their… their champion, right? So, they're never… I don't think they're ever going to
478
::MJS: I hear individual people Saying that they have problems with these things, but also.
479
::MJS: my main question is, why does it matter, and why is it important? Because we do have… we have people, like, it reminds me of comments that I get on Facebook, not trying to compare you to my Facebook trolls, but we get people all the time who say, well.
480
::MJS: you know, well, Biden did this, and Obama did this, and I'm like, yeah, motherfucker, he's not a president anymore, so I don't give a fuck what he did, like, you know, I'm talking about what's happening right now. But that's… that's not the… if…
481
::MJS: you're a rational person, so if it bothers you that there hasn't been an addressing of these things… and a lot of times, too, I'll say, and my aunts also say, here's all the shitty things Obama did. We don't worship… like, at least our group does not worship the leader like you're worshiping your leader. So when our leaders fuck up.
482
::MJS: I would like to call them out.
483
::MJS: And I also… and I do think that…
484
::MJS: leftists, in general, tend to do that more, and that's part of why we are so… like, we don't have a good block. We tend to attack other… our…
485
::MJS: selves more than just falling in line behind a leader. But I don't necessarily think they do it intelligently. Like, it'll be on bullshit kind of stuff sometimes, too. Yeah.
486
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah. But anyway, why does it matter?
487
::MJS: matter? Why do we need to grapple with what Obama did or didn't do if he's no longer president?
488
::Tyler Kluth: So, I think I have a…
489
::Tyler Kluth: a good answer for you, because I'm not trying to give you whataboutism, because whataboutism is a weak way to come at a complaint or an argument.
490
::Tyler Kluth: I think it's more… I don't think nearly as many people think that their elected president, the one they supported, did bad things.
491
::Tyler Kluth: They think that it's always against the other party and the bad things they do, but when their party does the same thing, they don't necessarily…
492
::MJS: turn a blind eye to it, yeah, because Obama had a lot of, of, executive overreach. He, didn't he have the most, what are those?
493
::Tyler Kluth: Executive orders.
494
::MJS: orders before Trump? He had some…
495
::Tyler Kluth: Dom, yeah.
496
::Tyler Kluth: And that's… and… and I think it's just important, which is, I think, why it's great that we're talking and trying to get this stuff to light, it's important to understand
497
::Tyler Kluth: That both parties are just as guilty of this, they just are guilty of it in different ways.
498
::Tyler Kluth: They're both doing the same thing.
499
::Tyler Kluth: And… to change things moving forward, that needs to be understood first, because…
500
::Tyler Kluth: If, in 2028, the Democrats run Gavin Newsom, and everybody falls in line…
501
::MJS: And I hope they don't do.
502
::Tyler Kluth: I know, but it's Gavin Newsom and J.D. Vance, okay?
503
::MJS: Oh, fuck, fuck.
504
::Tyler Kluth: Democrats all fall in line, because we can't have J.D. Vance, which I mean, there's no way he has a chance anymore anyway, but just saying that, like, Gavin Newsom will be no different
505
::Tyler Kluth: No. And Obama, then, you know, then…
506
::Tyler Kluth: than any of the Republicans, they're just gonna go for different things, but they're not gonna change anything. So, we just keep voting the same things in, thinking our side's better, when it's really both sides are not
507
::Tyler Kluth: Here for the people.
508
::MJS: Yeah.
509
::Tyler Kluth: And we need to understand that. We need to break… break the occult of each party.
510
::Tyler Kluth: to then get people to be done, because, you know, and that's the thing, is why I was saying we have had a king for a long time, because Congress has unconstitutionally offloaded all of its responsibilities to the executive branch.
511
::MJS: Yeah.
512
::Tyler Kluth: You know, Trump shouldn't be able to do all this stuff that he's doing, except Congress, under mostly Democratic Congresses, have voted all this stuff away, which is unconstitutional anyway, but we don't follow the Constitution anymore.
513
::MJS: Are you sure it's mostly Democratic Congresses?
514
::Tyler Kluth: I feel like it was a lot of this because Republicans didn't control any government for a majority of the 20th century.
515
::MJS: What about.
516
::Tyler Kluth: I'm not saying everything.
517
::MJS: the Reagan era, or… the Bushes?
518
::Tyler Kluth: So, the bushes will not…
519
::Tyler Kluth: I think the Republicans finally started getting… starting to get a lot more steam and control of the government.
520
::Tyler Kluth: starting Bush, too. Like, they could get presidents in, but Democrats still controlled a lot.
521
::Tyler Kluth: the majority of, of, you know, House and Senate
522
::Tyler Kluth: For the better part of the 20th century.
523
::Tyler Kluth: But I mean, Republicans are also…
524
::Tyler Kluth: Completely to blame for this, too, because they allowed it.
525
::Tyler Kluth: They didn't necessarily vote against it.
526
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah. But they allowed Congress to weaken itself, and they, like, what's happening right now? Congress could stop everything.
527
::Tyler Kluth: Right now.
528
::Tyler Kluth: Like, they can't, like, he can't… like, with tariffs, Congress has the power of the purse. They can't give that away.
529
::MJS: But we just know they're not going to.
530
::Tyler Kluth: Yes, exactly.
531
::Tyler Kluth: You know, why do you think we keep having wars? Because both parties support the wars.
532
::Tyler Kluth: At the end of the day, because Congress could stop it right now.
533
::Tyler Kluth: But he can't do it.
534
::Tyler Kluth: You know, and they try to use semantics, like, this is a special military operation, so they don't have to call it a war, but…
535
::Tyler Kluth: You're just changing the words. I think war… everybody knows what war is.
536
::MJS: Yeah.
537
::Tyler Kluth: And Congress couldn't shut it down, but you don't have anybody doing it, or you have a handful of people in Congress.
538
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah. Doing it. And… and I think that's… that's, like, the biggest message, is… They're all lying to us.
539
::MJS: Yeah.
540
::Tyler Kluth: And if we keep voting the same.
541
::Tyler Kluth: What do you expect to change?
542
::MJS: So, it… what you were saying about… about…
543
::MJS: not being able to admit that your guy is wrong. Like, I firmly believe that if…
544
::MJS: Somebody or an entity does something wrong.
545
::MJS: If they will not admit it.
546
::MJS: Like, if they keep pussyfooting around it, then that's almost a guarantee that they will do it again.
547
::MJS: If they cannot say that
548
::MJS: It, like, unless you can get them to admit that this was not a good idea, that I shouldn't have done that, and I will not do it again, they…
549
::MJS: If they just have excuses for their behavior, there's no reason to think that they won't repeat it.
550
::MJS: And… and that's why… A form of apology isn't just… it isn't just, like.
551
::MJS: to make you feel better, it's an admission of fact, an admission that something went wrong, and that I need to avoid it again. To me, it's like facing reality. And if they won't do it, then they're probably just going to keep manipulating you. So I can understand that.
552
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, and I mean, I guess because I, you know, like I said, I've really moved out towards the libertarian movement.
553
::Tyler Kluth: You know, I don't really think either of these political parties that are in control right now are a solution forward.
554
::Tyler Kluth: I… I don't think… I don't think voting for these… these people can… can make much of a difference.
555
::MJS: Well…
556
::Tyler Kluth: Especially at the federal level. Not to say at the state level.
557
::Tyler Kluth: you know, state level and local levels, I think, are different, but at the federal level, I… I don't… I… there needs to be a shake-up.
558
::MJS: I think it's really telling that… the Democratic Party has not…
559
::MJS: come up with any new way forward. Have you seen commentary about that?
560
::Tyler Kluth: Just, like, overall…
561
::MJS: Yeah, like, there's no… people… people have said the Democratic Party needs to have, like, it can't just be not Trump. We need to have a vision for what the fu… and there are people…
562
::MJS: there are really smart people who are aligned with Democrats who have presented ideas, and talked about it, and written books, and saying, this is what we need to do, this is what the Democratic Party needs to do. But the party, so when I say party, I don't mean, like, random people in the party, I mean, like, leadership-wise.
563
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, you mean the big political entity, like the DNC?
564
::MJS: Yeah, and, and I, I really think they're controlled opposition, I, I truly, like…
565
::MJS: I would… I don't know if I would bet a lot of money on it, but…
566
::MJS: I mean, there's so many…
567
::MJS: reasons to think, based on their actions, that there are people in power in… and I don't think it's all of them, but I think there are people in power in the Democratic Party who are
568
::MJS: best, Going along with things and don't really care, and at worst, are actively making decisions that
569
::MJS: still end up supporting an end goal that isn't just about the Republicans being in party, it's about the rich and… the rich getting richer, the people in power staying in power, blah blah blah blah. And I think some of the… even some of the Epstein-Files stuff sort of supports that. Like, it's clear, like, if you really dig into the records we've been able to access.
570
::MJS: It's clear that there is… collusion, that's the word I was looking for. There is collusion on all sides.
571
::MJS: For very nefarious activities.
572
::Tyler Kluth: Well, and I think it just shows that the Democratic Party didn't really push it until it was favorable for them now.
573
::MJS: Yeah.
574
::Tyler Kluth: There's no talk… they never… they never addressed releasing any… any files or looking into anything until…
575
::MJS: I didn't mean to interrupt you, sorry, I just want to put.
576
::Tyler Kluth: But, but, I mean, I'm not saying that there wasn't voices for it, but, like, it wasn't a big thing. I mean, Trump…
577
::Tyler Kluth: you know, like, like normal, shot himself in the foot, the administration, all the people he put in there ran on doing this, and then…
578
::Tyler Kluth: As soon as they do it, you know, they gaslight us, and like, oh, there's nothing, and this and that. It's like, when you guys literally… you're Cash Patel, and Dan Bongino, and Pam Bondi, you guys said for years how you're breaking this open, and then you get in there, like, oh yeah, there's nothing there.
579
::MJS: Yeah.
580
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, okay.
581
::Tyler Kluth: Woo!
582
::MJS: They, they, so, so… At least, my understanding is that when
583
::MJS: Biden was in office, and there was stuff about the Epstein files, that there… that the files were in some sort of legal process.
584
::MJS: And… It, at least, as a citizen, was,
585
::MJS: A part of the reason… so we get… we get fussed at by Republicans, like, why didn't you care about the Epstein files? And it's like, well, A,
586
::MJS: we… the MAGA story of the Epstein files that involved lizard people and whatever else just sounded cuckoo bananas. And so… you… it's really hard to listen to the other stuff in it.
587
::MJS: And turns out, that was probably deliberate. That was probably deliberate leaking online by Epstein or the organization, based on some other things we know about how the Epstein, not necessarily him individually, but yeah, him individually, and some other people, manipulated,
588
::MJS: hearts and minds, like, they did a lot of,
589
::MJS: like, they were… they did a lot of manipulation during game… Gamergate, to try… yeah, stuff like that.
590
::MJS: So… I think people who were…
591
::MJS: democratic, too, or at least not in the MAGAverse.
592
::MJS: thought that the Biden
593
::MJS: it thought that the Biden administration was following whatever rules they needed to, because the files were locked under some sort of legal process, and I think we… people had some level of trust, which potentially was misplaced.
594
::MJS: That, oh, these are the steps that need to happen, they're doing the right thing, it's going slow, but that's just how things are, and it'll all come out eventually.
595
::MJS: while the MAGiverse was just shouting about it and screaming about it, and also mostly using that to blame Democrats, like, that the Democrats were the bad guys in this thing. And that… that doesn't make sense to me, and I don't think it makes sense for a lot of people, that if you say it's only one side, that sounds like propaganda. What makes more sense.
596
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah.
597
::MJS: Is that this is just a whole bunch of… Psychos on all sides,
598
::Tyler Kluth: Exactly. And the political…
599
::MJS: parties are just another arm of control, you know? But not the end goal. They're not the end goal. They're just a way for you to get to the end goal.
600
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah.
601
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, I mean, I think that's why it wasn't brought up, because it wasn't, like, it wasn't good. It wasn't gonna do anything for anybody, because there is people from all, all thought, you know, both sides that, did some really horrible things, and I think
602
::Tyler Kluth: It's pretty clear now, and yeah, so…
603
::Tyler Kluth: You know, it would have been more helpful to keep it all quiet for all of them.
604
::MJS: Right, right.
605
::Tyler Kluth: Which you can tell the Trump administration instantly.
606
::Tyler Kluth: started backpedaling, because, like, this isn't gonna be good for us, right?
607
::Tyler Kluth: I caught the Yeah, and it's… and they're in power now, so it's gonna hurt them more.
608
::MJS: Yeah.
609
::Tyler Kluth: You know, so that's… that's where I think all the backpedaling comes. Like, yeah, it's a lot… it's… you can… that's a better talking point when you're not in power, but then once you get in power, and people want to see it, and you made such a big fuss about it, to then be like, oh yeah, there's nothing! Like, yeah, well, now it was just blatant… now you're just lying.
610
::Tyler Kluth: And it's… and it's not good lying. I mean, this is the worst propaganda out of any administration I think there's ever been.
611
::MJS: Yeah, yeah, it's, it's…
612
::Tyler Kluth: It's…
613
::MJS: Bad, it's bad. And, and it's… it's…
614
::MJS: Such, such a bad precedent, because it's kind of working.
615
::MJS: You know, it's showing what you can do, like.
616
::Tyler Kluth: I mean, I don't think it's working. I think Trump is pulling all the levers that have been allowed to be put in front of him over, you know, the last how many years of Congress voting away all of their ways to stop things, and, you know, you're gonna get somebody eventually that's gonna pull all the levers until they're stopped.
617
::MJS: Well, I hope you're right.
618
::Tyler Kluth: And… and…
619
::Tyler Kluth: obviously, Congress is complicit in it, like, because they're not stopping it, but, like, these levers have been there to pull, you know? I mean, like, the, the…
620
::Tyler Kluth: war in Iran right now. It's the most unfavorable war in at least modern day, probably all of American history, at the beginning. Like, it has such a low approval right out of the gates.
621
::MJS: Yeah.
622
::Tyler Kluth: you know, at least… at least Bush and Cheney, you know, put some time into their lives.
623
::Tyler Kluth: You know, they put some time in the propaganda.
624
::MJS: Right.
625
::Tyler Kluth: You know, like, you know, like… like, there was, like, no effort at all in this. They still can't get their story straight. We still have the goal changes every 5 minutes.
626
::MJS: Yeah.
627
::MJS: Oh, and some people still believe it. That's… gives me a headache, gives me a headache.
628
::MJS: So…
629
::MJS: I'm thinking we can record, like, two… not two and a half hours, one and a half hours, and then we can… that give… that should give us about an hour show.
630
::Tyler Kluth: Probably, after all editing.
631
::MJS: Let's go.
632
::MJS: But I wanted to ask you, so let's… let's talk about what we're working on. So we sort of, like, we sort of have set a stage for stuff we think about, we care about, and, you know, it's impossible to get into all, but you said…
633
::MJS: you said that you were, you reached out to the, Libertarian Party. You might start a Libertarian Party chapter. So I have to ask you, as a libertarian, how do you feel about, like, privatization of schools and roads and stuff like that?
634
::Tyler Kluth: So, it's… I'm for it.
635
::MJS: Really? I will… I don't think I could ever agree with you on that.
636
::Tyler Kluth: That being said, it's not like a, it's not like a light switch.
637
::Tyler Kluth: Like, I would never… it's… I would say all this, like, from public goods going back to private controlled.
638
::Tyler Kluth: It's like, we didn't used to have it, so we slowly climbed up a ladder, building all of these things through the public sector, through government and taxation.
639
::Tyler Kluth: So then, if you were to be like, we're getting rid of all of it, and we're going back to all private sector, it would just… it would shock the system so hard, because this is the system that people, you know, for a long time now, are used to. So you can't just end it.
640
::Tyler Kluth: But you can work towards it.
641
::Tyler Kluth: So, yeah, I think…
642
::Tyler Kluth: I mean, I have… I have issues with… I have issues with our, you know, our tax models, and…
643
::Tyler Kluth: How the public sector runs things, because government is inherently inefficient.
644
::Tyler Kluth: government… only can pay things through taxation. Government makes no money.
645
::Tyler Kluth: So, every government employee technically doesn't pay taxes. I mean, they do, they get a paycheck, and the government takes tax money out, but all of their paycheck is tax money.
646
::Tyler Kluth: So, they're not adding to the economy, they're taking away from the economy, if you look at it as an economic point.
647
::Tyler Kluth: And the only way to get that money is through taxation, and our tax code pretty much…
648
::Tyler Kluth: Hurts the middle class the most.
649
::Tyler Kluth: So the middle class has to support all of this.
650
::Tyler Kluth: And so, you know, I think… I think there… there's better… there's better options. And then you… if you think, too, like, by having… especially… it's starting to get easier with, like, some school choice and the laxing of regulations, but…
651
::Tyler Kluth: You know, the government has a monopoly on education.
652
::Tyler Kluth: you live in a school district, your child, you know, it's compulsory, your child has to go to this school, like, here in Eau Claire, there's no… there wasn't… there's not school choice. Like, if I don't like the school that we live in, I can't… the district I live in with that school, I can't send my kid to a different school, even in the public school system.
653
::Tyler Kluth: So…
654
::Tyler Kluth: Which, that can create… I think that can create issues, too, by, you know, forcing small groups into certain ones, and then also not allowing competition. There's no competition.
655
::Tyler Kluth: And any competition is heavily regulated by the government, and you don't get your license to run a private school unless you meet
656
::Tyler Kluth: their standards. So they have a monopoly.
657
::Tyler Kluth: And without competition, there's no price signals.
658
::Tyler Kluth: Coming back, so they can just spend as much as they want.
659
::Tyler Kluth: Whereas, if there is a school that can do it better for cheaper.
660
::Tyler Kluth: It would force the government then to have to compete and do it better for cheaper, and not waste.
661
::Tyler Kluth: So, I think there's arguments for it.
662
::Tyler Kluth: Like, you know, and this is just… at this point, we haven't seen that in action for… Century.
663
::Tyler Kluth: Or more. So, you know, it is, you know, it's theoretical, I understand, but…
664
::Tyler Kluth: Like, I like to say, like, just because this is the system doesn't mean it HAS to be.
665
::Tyler Kluth: Like, the idea that we can't try something different, it's kind of like what you said with ranked choice voting.
666
::Tyler Kluth: You know, they're trying to ban it before it's even allowed, Why don't we try?
667
::MJS: Right.
668
::MJS: Yeah, I agree with you on… on that. I think it would be interesting to explore specifically the…
669
::MJS: libertarian stuff in future episodes, because.
670
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, and I actually wanted… one of the future episodes I think would be fun is talking more about the education system.
671
::Tyler Kluth: I was like, I'm just gonna throw this out there, maybe as a teaser, we don't get into it right now, but, like, I support ending the Department of Education.
672
::Tyler Kluth: I think it is not beneficial. I think it wastes money.
673
::MJS: This gets me into wondering, like, kind of how much of it is… you remember how the other day, when we were talking about
674
::MJS: Sometimes the solution, like, the solution is bad because other parts of the system is bad, and it's like…
675
::MJS: Almost like you have to unravel the whole thing.
676
::Tyler Kluth: Yes.
677
::Tyler Kluth: That's what I.
678
::MJS: That reminds me of, because
679
::MJS: I can see problems with the Department of Education as a whole, but I'm… I…
680
::MJS: Think that something like that needs to exist.
681
::Tyler Kluth: The problem is it just… from what… from what I understand, and the research that I've seen, is…
682
::Tyler Kluth: The Department of Education eats up about 35 cents of every dollar it takes in, just in administration costs.
683
::Tyler Kluth: So… we could just cut DC out of the equation, and every state could keep its money.
684
::Tyler Kluth: to invest in education. Like, I think that's one step forward while not getting rid of the public education system.
685
::Tyler Kluth: I believe the states should have more control. And then…
686
::Tyler Kluth: You know, the argument I always hear is, is, you know, like, well, like, states like Louisiana couldn't afford to have their schools then because they have to subsidize through the federal government. Like, for one, do you think that your money that could be in your community should go to a whole other state
687
::Tyler Kluth: That isn't involved in your life, or should at least the money that's being taken from you, from you working, at least stay in your community?
688
::MJS: Well, the argument about it is that, yes, I actually would rather have some of my money go to another state if I'm… if they are part of… if we're all part of a whole, I think I benefit
689
::MJS: From them having…
690
::MJS: a bare minimum quality, and if they are struggling to… like, there's still schools in Alabama that struggle to have all the textbooks that they need. Maybe they're not using textbooks anymore, but that was… that was, you know, there were lots of schools like that.
691
::Tyler Kluth: Sorry.
692
::MJS: Well, because…
693
::Tyler Kluth: I guess, public… the public education system should have fixed that, and it hasn't.
694
::Tyler Kluth: Department of Education should have fixed that. It's been, what, Jimmy Carter?
695
::MJS: Well, some people would argue that what has been happening is that public services have been have been…
696
::MJS: mismanaged or starved to the point that you can now point to them and say, see, they… they don't do a good job, when what they really needed was more resources. And that's… that's a big argument that a lot of people on the left have against the right, and… and also against,
697
::MJS: libertarian arguments to privatize things, is that, well, if you… if you did what you were supposed to with the public service, you wouldn't feel a need to do that, to privatize it, or whatever.
698
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, I mean, I could see that, but I think it… I think it always falls back to the smaller the government, the better, by allowing things to work, because government's so bloated, and they can't use money properly.
699
::Tyler Kluth: And… and your public education system should have… should… should have already figured out how to delegate the money
700
::Tyler Kluth: from the richer schools to the poorer schools and solve this problem. But they don't.
701
::Tyler Kluth: Like, why are.
702
::MJS: A lot of people get mad about it.
703
::Tyler Kluth: School's still, still so bad.
704
::Tyler Kluth: But what it…
705
::MJS: But…
706
::MJS: Some people will say… so the… it's interesting, because the same argument of, you know, why should my money go to this other school that has nothing to do with me? That's often a lot of why people don't want to distribute money to these other places, you know? I don't know. It seems complicated.
707
::Tyler Kluth: But, yeah, well, it is, and that's… that's the hardest part, is it gets… everything gets really complicated really quick.
708
::MJS: And it also just keeps going back to, as long as there are other things broken in the system, you aren't going to be able to fix things unless you completely scrap it and start fresh. And that is way harder to do
709
::MJS: Then, to keep incrementally adding bad fixes To an already bad system.
710
::Tyler Kluth: Yep, so to go back to my analogy of the ladders, we climbed up to the second story on a ladder.
711
::Tyler Kluth: if we do like you just said, like, it just needs washed out and restarted, that's like jumping off the ladder. You're gonna hit the ground, you're gonna break your legs, everything's gonna be miserable.
712
::Tyler Kluth: We need to go one rung at a time.
713
::Tyler Kluth: Now, those rungs, you and me are gonna think walking down that ladder is gonna look differently, obviously, from, you know, where I think from with the private sector and the public sector.
714
::Tyler Kluth: But I think no matter which direction we go, it's gotta be a step-by-step basis so we don't shock everything and make things horrible.
715
::Tyler Kluth: So… and so, like, one thing I think… I think the biggest step forward is to… is the states need to regain their power. The states are supposed to be more powerful than the federal government.
716
::Tyler Kluth: So we need to give the states the power to do the things, and also, if a state is having economic issues and it can't… like, right now, the federal government will subsidize them, so they don't have to focus on building industry.
717
::MJS: Yeah.
718
::Tyler Kluth: Or things that make money, whereas if you have… if you need companies, you need businesses, you need tax revenue, you'll figure out how to get it, because that's how you support your people.
719
::Tyler Kluth: I think you're more incentivized that way.
720
::MJS: Yeah.
721
::Tyler Kluth: And I remember doing, like, a little… just a little research, not a ton, so I couldn't be wrong, but looking at, like,
722
::Tyler Kluth: at populations of, you know, like, the Scandinavian countries, because that's always the, like, left, like, stronghold of, like, look at these Scandinavian countries and all this great, you know, stuff. They give all these benefits and all that. Like, for one, like, people are taxed immensely.
723
::Tyler Kluth: But also, like, you know, but people say, like, like, an individual state couldn't support its own public education system, and that's… that's nonsense. Like, the populations are very similar to many states in this country, to those countries… many states in this country, comparative to those countries. The states are as big
724
::Tyler Kluth: as these contracts. So if they can do it.
725
::Tyler Kluth: You know, why can't Wisconsin do it?
726
::Tyler Kluth: Like, Wisconsin has the same population as multiple countries in Scandinavia.
727
::MJS: That's interesting, because a lot of people will argue and say, oh, look, the U.S. is different from Scandinavia, we're so much bigger, so none of their solutions will work here, but when you break it down to, well, the states are smaller, so…
728
::MJS: That… that ruins the argument, yeah, I think that's interesting.
729
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, and it's, you know, it's just something to think about, and I think that's kind of what's helped move my view towards
730
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, like, we need states to do things, but they're kind of strangleholded under the federal government right now, where it should be the opposite way.
731
::Tyler Kluth: Because it's supposed to be a union of states.
732
::Tyler Kluth: And, you know, so technically, the states are sovereign, not the country. Like, the United States is not a sovereign country. It is a country made up of sovereign states. You know, you can't amend the Constitution without a majority of the states.
733
::Tyler Kluth: So, technically, the country can't do anything without the states.
734
::Tyler Kluth: So, I think we need to allow the states
735
::Tyler Kluth: You know, the states need to take their power back.
736
::Tyler Kluth: Which would also push for more local involvement. If you're… if more things were controlled, you know, in Atlanta, or in Madison here.
737
::Tyler Kluth: People would be less concerned about federal government policy and more concerned about local and state policy.
738
::MJS: And they should be more concerned about local and state policy, because that was also something we talked about, like, how…
739
::MJS: Discouraging it is to see people shout about stuff on a…
740
::MJS: on a national level, and then completely ignore and tap out on the local level, and not want to get involved at all. That's been… that's been a real… that's been a real…
741
::MJS: point of contention in my head, like, thinking about… Why aren't people… involved locally. Why…
742
::MJS: Won't they stand up and…
743
::MJS: Speak out on… or pay any attention to local issues that affect them often so much more than some of the national stuff.
744
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, so, like, to bring back to the No Kings protest that we were talking about.
745
::Tyler Kluth: We have big No Kings protests right here in Eau Claire.
746
::Tyler Kluth: And we have an appointed city manager and no democratically elected mayor.
747
::MJS: Like…
748
::Tyler Kluth: Maybe we should start practicing this democracy that we want.
749
::Tyler Kluth: at home.
750
::MJS: Yeah, I think that's a valid… I would be interested to hear what
751
::MJS: hear a response from somebody in Eau Claire about that. I think that'd be… I want to hear them say, well, like, well, what's the… what's the argument?
752
::MJS: For… is there anybody working on that? Is there? I don't.
753
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, I mean, not that I know of, that is one of the things I want to start looking into here.
754
::MJS: Yeah.
755
::Tyler Kluth: is, like, what are the hurdles? How do you get, you know, how do you get that message out? How many people know?
756
::Tyler Kluth: Yo.
757
::Tyler Kluth: So, one thing that I want to do locally, like you said, I start… I just reached out to the Libertarian Party of Wisconsin. They have no affiliate in Eau Claire, so I'm talking with them on what that looks like to get something rolling here.
758
::Tyler Kluth: And then also, I've always had a big interest in writing, and I've wrote a lot of fiction, I write, like, write small, you know, short stories.
759
::Tyler Kluth: Awesome. You know, my wife's helping me edit currently, but I've always wanted to do more writing, so I am experimenting with a couple op-eds.
760
::Tyler Kluth: that I can submit to local papers and magazines.
761
::Tyler Kluth: To write about these topics, and try to get them in front of people's eyes.
762
::Tyler Kluth: Because I just, I've always found it interesting, and I don't see anybody writing about these kinds of things.
763
::MJS: Yeah.
764
::Tyler Kluth: So that is kind of, my current mission right now, is, you know, continuing to read and educate myself, but try to, yeah, try to write and get articles out.
765
::MJS: Yeah.
766
::Tyler Kluth: For people to read.
767
::MJS: Are you going to, start a… a,
768
::MJS: Are you gonna start a,
769
::MJS: Sorry, I'm actually signing up for the, newsletter.
770
::MJS: Hang on, hang on, hang on.
771
::MJS: for the Libertarian Party.
772
::Tyler Kluth: Gotcha.
773
::MJS: So, as a non…
774
::Tyler Kluth: The Libertarian Party is a disaster, okay? It's a mess.
775
::MJS: Oh, I bet, it's a bunch of libertarians.
776
::MJS: How easy is it for them to…
777
::Tyler Kluth: Well, there's.
778
::MJS: But, you know…
779
::Tyler Kluth: That's the problem, is there's very left libertarians, and there's very right libertarians. So you have libertarians that believe in no borders, and there's libertarians that believe in full borders.
780
::MJS: Yeah.
781
::Tyler Kluth: Because you can kind of pick apart the ideology either way.
782
::Tyler Kluth: So, yeah, like, the Libertarian Party has a lot of infighting.
783
::MJS: Yeah.
784
::Tyler Kluth: I kind of meant, you know, then it gets down to, like, what caucus are you in, or, you know, what part of libertarian, like, philosophy do you follow?
785
::Tyler Kluth: But since we'.
786
::MJS: nonpartisan. Basically, like, we are anti-authoritarian, nonpartisan, so, we can align with libertari… and I just didn't think to… they didn't pop up. The libertarians didn't pop up on my…
787
::MJS: on my radar around here, although I know they exist, so, I,
788
::MJS: didn't, that we hadn't added their stuff to our calendar, but we… we like to try to promote other, like, anybody that is not currently actively aligned with authoritarianism.
789
::MJS: Which, honestly, the Democratic Party is questionable, but we still promote them, because.
790
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah.
791
::MJS: You know? But yeah, so anyway, I'm glad you mentioned that, because I just realized we actually have local events,
792
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, but one thing, one thing that I guarantee you every, like, every libertarian should be for is anti-war.
793
::MJS: One would help, yeah.
794
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, a libertarian philosophy is anti-war. Like, that's one, like, the, you know, they…
795
::MJS: Is it really? Do most libertarians agree with you, or do you… or is that something that you just know logically is what…
796
::Tyler Kluth: From my reading and the libertarian, you know, hosts of podcasts that I follow and all that, like, that is…
797
::Tyler Kluth: a very key… because war is only done by governments, and war is only funded by taxpayer money. Libertarians are against taxing.
798
::Tyler Kluth: So, and also, one of the founding principles is the NAP, the non-aggression principle. So, to commit war is breaking the principle of non-aggression. You know, there should only be violence if you are aggressed upon as defense.
799
::MJS: Yeah.
800
::Tyler Kluth: So any offensive government war action is completely against the beliefs of… of the libertarian.
801
::MJS: I can get behind that.
802
::MJS: I think technically I'm a pacifist, technically, because I don't… I don't believe…
803
::MJS: that there is any logical justification for acts of aggression. Like, even… even if I… even, even…
804
::MJS: Ignoring all of the social and…
805
::MJS: Just the evil and nastiness and the pain and suffering that it creates.
806
::MJS: even if I had just ignored that and tried to only look, like, at…
807
::MJS: any other evidence? I… I can't see… I can't see any reason why…
808
::MJS: War should be supported, except as an act of defense.
809
::Tyler Kluth: Yes, exactly.
810
::MJS: I mean, it makes money for the…
811
::MJS: People who sell this shit, and…
812
::Tyler Kluth: Yes, it's a transfer of wealth from the poor to the rich.
813
::MJS: Yes.
814
::MJS: And I mean, everything. The environmental impact, the economic impact, the long-term social impact, The cascading…
815
::Tyler Kluth: Fuh.
816
::MJS: It's just cuckoo bananas that anybody can… it particularly bothers me to have people
817
::MJS: even pretending that this is at all a war of righteousness that we're engaging in in the Middle East right now. Like, that… that's just gross, vomit-worthy to me.
818
::MJS: ness.
819
::Tyler Kluth: Yep.
820
::MJS: So, you're working on that. I'm… I'm working on, we are currently…
821
::MJS: Trying to intelligently grow our group,
822
::MJS: And we're also always trying to figure out what's important to people. One of the things that we are working on, I think, going forward… I mentioned to you last time that, for whatever reason, the Democratic Party, local Democratic Party, did not field any candidates
823
::MJS: for… Down-ballot races for the county level and below for the fall.
824
::MJS: And so, we do have… Democratic candidates on…
825
::MJS: And again, going back to the two-party system, why does it matter if they're democratic or not? Oh, because that's all that exists. That's really, you know, they… you have to be one of… one or the other to run, really.
826
::Tyler Kluth: Yep.
827
::Tyler Kluth: Which usually tends to be easier to run as something else locally.
828
::MJS: Yeah.
829
::Tyler Kluth: The ballot access is a lot simpler than federally, which is good, I'm promising.
830
::MJS: Yeah.
831
::MJS: So… Our, our group, I, I feel very strongly that
832
::MJS: Even if the competition is bad.
833
::MJS: that the competition… having competition makes things better, so even if I didn't like either of the two candidates, the fact that they're having to compete with each other, truly compete, if they're truly competing and not colluding, they are ideally having to listen to the people more, having to come up with better solutions, so…
834
::MJS: as far as I'm concerned, having only one candidate on the ballot is just a total disservice to the community. And so, what our group is trying to do is create more education around
835
::MJS: these… around the issues that these roles are affecting, and the… the roles are…
836
::MJS: County Commissioner Chair, County Commission Chair, Board of Commission Chair.
837
::MJS: One of the county commissioner seats, several Board of Education seats.
838
::MJS: and Solicitor General. And I think most people don't know what those do.
839
::MJS: Not really.
840
::MJS: So… so, not only do we want to educate people on what these things are, we…
841
::MJS: if we only have one party, the local Republicans, who are local Republicans, are very lockstep with MAGA and Trump, I assume there are…
842
::MJS: Republican parties in some places where you could say, well,
843
::MJS: they're a good, you know, this guy is a good person, and he's not a MAGA nut job, so, you know, even though he has a Republican thing, you know, he's not gonna be cuckoo bananas, whatever. I'm sure that exists, and it used to exist more, but I don't think that's what we really have here, because
844
::MJS: I mean, even… I was… I was at the Capitol for,
845
::MJS: the first day of the new legislation kickoff thing for, like, an education… educational event from the ACLU, and I got,
846
::MJS: I was next to…
847
::MJS: I was trying to get… speak to one of our Republican representatives, who… her name is Charlize Bird, and she is cuckoo bananas, like, batshit.
848
::MJS: right-wing, conservative. She's just more socially acceptable,
849
::MJS: and… and is better at seeing… Charlie's. Sorry, it's Charlie's, I always get her name wrong.
850
::Tyler Kluth: Gotcha.
851
::MJS: But she's just more socially acceptable and doesn't come off as aggressive and malignant as Marjorie Taylor Greene did, but she's absolutely batshit.
852
::MJS: Anyway, she,
853
::MJS: was talking to the head of the Republican… Cherokee County Republican Party, and I could hear him speaking to her, and he leaned into her ear and was saying something like, we're gonna do really great things for Trump this year. It was… it was very close to those words. And to me.
854
::MJS: That is… that is extremely telling, and that's also just how they think. They are more concerned about doing what the head of their cult wants than listening to the needs of the people.
855
::Tyler Kluth: And they're…
856
::MJS: Completely ignoring the fact that the head of their cult
857
::MJS: is not listening to the needs of the people, except as… to use as political fodder to manipulate. You know, the full extent and breadth… depth and breadth of him listening to people is just to figure out how to use that information to gain power.
858
::MJS: And manipulate them into thinking that he's on their side.
859
::MJS: So, anyway, I feel very strongly that we need to have Some sort of democratic…
860
::MJS: stance against it, against these things. We need to… if the Republican Party is the only group doing,
861
::MJS: you know, town halls where they talk about the issues, answering questions, etc, etc, if they… they get to lead the discussion, and they will present one version of reality that may or may not be truthful.
862
::MJS: And we need to be able to surface other options, so that's what we want to do, and
863
::MJS: We're still working on figuring out exactly how to do that, but we do have a guy now who is definitely running for County Commission Chair as a write-in.
864
::MJS: And…
865
::MJS: we don't ex… we truly… if I were a better bullshitter, I would say, I expect us to win, and we're gonna do da-da-da. No, we're gonna go as hard as we can, but it will be almost impossible to win as a write-in. That's just extremely difficult. It's difficult to reach anybody. Everybody's gonna vote. But every vote for our write-in candidate sends a message that they are not aligned with the platform of these existing
866
::MJS: candidates, and they are aligned with whatever other platform we end up presenting.
867
::MJS: And I think that's important, and when I… when I ran for mayor, and you said you wanted to go into that, we can go into that in another episode. When I ran for mayor, I did not think I would win at all. And I didn't. I did… I did really well. I got a third of the total vote, almost exactly, statistically, a third.
868
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, no, I saw that, that's why I congratulated you right away, because I feel like that was…
869
::Tyler Kluth: it was extraordinary, like, that doesn't happen from somebody unknown without party money and party backing. Right.
870
::MJS: And I spent very little money on it.
871
::Tyler Kluth: Like, very, very.
872
::MJS: very, very little. It was extremely grassroots. But I… and I… and I think that's just so telling, that if you are… that… that we are not…
873
::MJS: Michael Caldwell, the current mayor, just was not… reaching…
874
::MJS: A full third of the people… of just the people who would vote.
875
::MJS: Definitely wasn't, you know, wasn't serving… they believed that he wasn't serving their needs.
876
::MJS: And… and that's really telling to me. And so… and if they are smart, what you will see is, oh, this did resonate with people, we need to take… we need to pay attention to it. And even on a county level, we have now had more discussions around,
877
::MJS: attainable housing is the word we're using, because affordable housing, what does that mean? But attainable, I mean…
878
::MJS: you know how people just twist words, and so then you have to abandon them because somebody's manipulated them? Realistically, all of that attainable, affordable housing, you can mathematically calculate it by saying, okay, here is… here's…
879
::MJS: The mean, median, and mode,
880
::MJS: Earning power, or no, household income of Are people who live here.
881
::MJS: Does that mean they can afford any of the houses on the market?
882
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah.
883
::MJS: that's just it. It's math. It's math. It's not bullshit. And, you know, nationally, we have huge problems around housing affordability, but locally.
884
::MJS: There are things you can do locally to incentivize different choices from people who live here, from the developers, all kinds of different things, and
885
::MJS: We just have to keep being loud about these options, because if you philosophically disagree with things, like our,
886
::MJS: Our mayor has said, and you're a libertarian, so you might agree with him, our mayor has said that he does not think that the,
887
::MJS: Government should play a role at all in housing affordability.
888
::MJS: Guess what? Whether or not he says that.
889
::MJS: Because of the way our government works, anytime somebody comes up and wants to build something, the government is already fucking involved.
890
::Tyler Kluth: Oh, no.
891
::MJS: Live in anything like a free market for housing development or commercial development.
892
::MJS: There are always, at multiple steps, ways to incentivize developers to make one decision versus another.
893
::MJS: And so it's, it's so… it's either ignorant.
894
::MJS: or stupid or manipulative for him to say we don't have a role in that. Because whether he likes it or not, they are playing a role. He just incentivizes
895
::MJS: developers to do whatever they want, probably because of social or monetary benefits to him and his.
896
::Tyler Kluth: I have to go to the bathroom, I'm sorry, I'll be right back.
897
::MJS: Yeah, no worries.
898
::MJS: Bring the microphone, it'll be good audio! I'm kidding.
899
::Tyler Kluth: I was really trying to make it through your thought, and…
900
::MJS: Oh, no, you're good, you're good. I'm done.
901
::Tyler Kluth: Okay.
902
::Tyler Kluth: Well, I… maybe we just want to wrap there.
903
::MJS: Sure.
904
::MJS: Yeah.
905
::Tyler Kluth: We can do that. See what we got.
906
::MJS: Yeah.
907
::MJS: We can do that.
908
::MJS: And, roll tide.
909
::Tyler Kluth: Boop.
910
::MJS: I said roll tide.
911
::Tyler Kluth: Girls…
912
::MJS: You gotta have some way to finish it, or something. Hey, do you wanna…
913
::Tyler Kluth: I was like.
914
::MJS: Do you wanna make… do you want to make a song for it together? Like a… song.
915
::Tyler Kluth: Like a, like an intro song?
916
::MJS: Yeah!
917
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, I think we should. We need… you need good intro music.
918
::MJS: Yeah.
919
::Tyler Kluth: Is there any good recordings of us doing stuff?
920
::MJS: I don't know, I don't know.
921
::MJS: I could record something and send it to you, and you could record under it or over it or whatever.
922
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, we could figure something out.
923
::MJS: That'd be fun.
924
::MJS: That'd be fun.
925
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah.
926
::MJS: We could write lyrics for it, I don't know, I'm excited. It'll be… it'll be a good time.
927
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, I think so.
928
::MJS: We're gonna take over the world.
929
::Tyler Kluth: Hey, you know, you know, I didn't know if we were gonna be able to go for an hour, and we almost went two, so…
930
::MJS: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
931
::MJS: We'll have lots of stuff to talk about.
932
::MJS: Alright!
933
::Tyler Kluth: Definitely. I agree, because I think we touched on a lot of things that I want to talk about more, so…
934
::MJS: Yeah, yeah. So, I'll, edit it. I probably won't get to it until…
935
::MJS: maybe Monday, coming… circling back to this, just because,
936
::MJS: Just because this weekend's a big event for us. Yeah. But,
937
::MJS: I'll get… I want… my goal is to get it, like.
938
::MJS: pretty far along. So, also, if you just wanna… if you want to send me a recording of you doing some bleep bloops, technical term, you can send it to me, and maybe I can mess with it, and we can just, you know, we can make something better later. I'd rather get this up as soon as possible.
939
::Tyler Kluth: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and then, you know, I figure even if this one's not done, like, next week, do another one before I go on vacation.
940
::MJS: Yeah.
941
::Tyler Kluth: You know…
942
::MJS: Sounds good.
943
::Tyler Kluth: And I might be able to do, you know, do a little bit while we're on vacation, too.
944
::MJS: Well, don't stress about it.
945
::Tyler Kluth: Oh, no, I'm just… I'm… I enjoy this, but, you know, given the time.
946
::MJS: Yeah.
947
::MJS: Well, tell Lindsey I said hi.
948
::Tyler Kluth: I will.
949
::MJS: I bet your… I bet Tripp doesn't remember us at all, does he?
950
::Tyler Kluth: Probably not.
951
::MJS: Yeah.
952
::MJS: Oh, that's funny. He, we still have a picture of us holding him, sitting in a picture that I put together for Jared as a gift one year, and it's at the entrance, and our friend's kids will always ask us if it's them. They'll be like, oh, is that… is that me? No.
953
::MJS: No, no, no… They really want to know who it is, like, they're very…
954
::MJS: Well, who is it? You know, who's a.
955
::Tyler Kluth: Hage kid that's on your lap.
956
::MJS: Not me.
957
::MJS: Alright, well, have fun, and stay in touch.
958
::Tyler Kluth: I will, definitely, yeah, yeah, we'll talk… we'll talk more and kinda figure out what we want to do for the next one.
959
::MJS: Sounds good. Alright. Bye!
960
::Tyler Kluth: Bye!
